Gucci Row

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Welcome to Gucci Row on the Rebel HD 2. I'm your host Kevin Kelly with co-host Will Despark. Thanks for tuning in to our courtside conversations covering all things NBA.

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Alright, welcome back y'all.

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Another episode of Gucci Row. I'm here, your host Kevin Kelly. Your co-host Will Despart. We're back at it man.

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How we doing today?

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Good, how are you? I'm doing well, I'm doing well. Excited for some basketball this week that we're going to get to go to. Yeah, Summer League, it's that time of year, one of my favorites. Yeah, absolutely. The whole NBA gathers in the city and get to rub shoulders with everyone, so it's an exciting time. For sure. So today we're going to cover a few topics. We're going to start out with an under 25 draft. You know, all the publications in the fall, right before the season gears up, like to do their top under 25 lists. So we're going to go into that and draft a team of five starters and two bench players off that and let you guys decide which team you think is better. And then we're going to just talk a bit about they just finalized the FIBA team, the USA team for the competition this fall in the Philippines, Indonesia. And we're going to just discuss a bit about that before closing out with the new CBA that was agreed upon this spring and just breaking down a bit of the jargon and some of the implications that it has around. So, we're going to do Snake for the under 25 draft. So Will, I'll let you start and then I'll get second and third and then back to you for fourth and fifth.

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Well, my first pick is going to be pretty obvious, Wembe.

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Okay.

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The 7-5 alien.

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Okay.

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uh... he's seven five million okay all right so when the at center for will my first pick is uh... gonna be luca when i got and man will begin and i think it's going to be a future and the peak of a few years alike that a lot so i'm gonna go with the big myself uh... and i'm a tick jaron jackson junior uh... I'm going to take Jaron Jackson Jr., the reigning DPOY, and yeah, I'm excited for his career. I'm going to go with Mello, I think it was either him or Ja, but you know, Ja has some questions obviously going forward, and I think Mello, post-injury, I think he's going to be a stud. I think that's a great pick, the one and two from that draft class, you know, they've been together considering their arm skill sets and how they'd mesh like that pic uh... i'm gonna go to wing myself uh... i'm a taxi yeah i realize we haven't been doing snake which is fine so you can just take

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that one

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i'll go mobli okay i need some defense in there i think him and wemby towering over the post i think that's a good little combo there. Yeah, good luck trying to get a shot at the rim on that team. So I have Luka, Zion, and Kieran. I think I need another small wing or guard. Cade Cunningham. I think that he's a guy that functions really well with the ball and off and can guard a variety of roles are I definitely need another wing myself. Jaden McDaniels, definitely an early go for him, but I think that among the lists of wings under 25, I think he's probably the best defender of the bunch. And yeah, so to round out the starting fives, we have my team is Luca, Cade Cunningham, Jaden McDaniels, Zion and Jaron Jackson Jr. And Will, your team is Lamello, Ant-Man, Paolo, Evan Mobley and Wemby. Now we'll get our two bench guys and then let you guys decide who is better.

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So Will, if you want to start us off with the bench. Well I'll take John now. I think we can get past the off the court issues. He's a sixth man. We can make that work.

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Definitely. And for my six man, I'll take Tyrese Halliburton. I will go with the Scooter. Scoot, man. To close out my team, I will go with the Chet Holmgren. So my team ends up with Luca, Cade Cunningham, Jaden McDaniels, Jaren, Zion, and off the bench Tyrese Halliburton and Chet. Will's team is Wemby, Antman, Lamello, Evan Mobley, Paolo and off the bench is Ja and Scoop. So you guys take your pick, feel free to let us know, Instagram, DM's, whatever, who's got the better team. Just the guards on the team are Jaylen Brunson, Anthony Edwards, Tyrese Halliburton, and Austin Reeves. The forwards, Paolo Bancarell, Mikhail Bridges, Josh Hart, Brandon Ingram, Jaron Jackson Jr., and Cam Johnson. And the lone two bigs on the team are Walker Kessler and Bobby Portis. If you wanna just talk a bit about the roster, just like, do you think they're thin at the big?

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What do you think of being having such a young team? Yeah, I Mean, it looks like what a FIBA roster would look like at this point in time given with the national teams that Obviously, they're really thin with the center position named Walker Kessler's. He's a good player But I don't know if he's the guy you want anchoring your national team in the post uh... i like mckay i like paul i think those are good players have been team josh hart to uh... jaron jackson of course and the guards i think are fine but

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the other centers could be an issue yeah i hear that i think that i can and i agree it it just having two bigs at no matter who they are is thin but uh... yeah like you said i think kessler is a really good rookie provides a lot of rim protection but I don't know if you want that to be your centerpiece in the paint, but that said they also have Jaren and technically in the forwards or wings department here who provides as we know a lot of interior defense and rim deterrence And then they also have Paolo who's a big body forward and can provide a lot of rebounding and clog things up in the paint. Speaking of whom, Paolo had been getting a lot of heat, especially from Italians, because he verbally committed at some point earlier that he would play for Italy if he got the chance. But then the USA came calling and understandably he wanted to win a gold so joined us. The same thing happened with Austin Reeves in Germany, which I just learned about, but he had similarly had a commitment to them and then got the opportunity with USA and took it. And like I said, I think it's completely understandable. It's clearly your best chance at getting a medal. So yeah, do you agree with that?

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Well I think the issue with Paulo was, and I was reading this on the internet and stuff, is that he was so adamant about joining Italy. Like he's the number one overall draft pick, right? He was always going to get the chance to be on Team USA at some point. Like it's not like Austin Reeves. I think it's different with Austin Reeves where he was like, he's an undrafted player who like, this guy may never, the chance he ever got to play Team USA basketball is an incredible long shot. But Paulo Bencaro, he's going to be at the FIBA level no matter what and he is making this commitment to Italy for years saying I'm coming no matter what and I said, okay, but if America comes calling I don't care. I'm coming to Italy. I'm playing for Italy and

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Obviously I would do the same thing. I would play for the US but now that's fair. I think you you know especially when you bring up the fact that like Reeves is Chance at playing for the US seemed to be significantly lower, especially from just the number one pick and all the things like that. So there's definitely a difference there, I hear that. And Paolo has been big on his Italian heritage, he has the flag in his bio and whatnot. And is constantly just putting on for Italy, I saw him over there recently just Add a bunch of soccer games and stuff, but I understand it Um, you know anytime an international squad has the chance at landing someone like that It's it's understandable that they'd be upset when they don't For sure. So, um a few of these guys that are on the team Namely Tyrese Halliburton and Ant-Man just signed their rookie uh... namely tyree saliburn and and man just on their rookie uh... max extensions this summer which is five years two hundred and sixty million uh... as did the melo but he's not on the scene but uh... yeah i mean that's a huge bag i think that for all three of those guys well-deserved i wonder uh... who have this contract that they have will uh... affect their team's ability to build rosters just based on the new I Luckily, we have guys that are able to break it down and put it in more simpler terms. Just to go through a few of the implications, the previous CBA that got placed was in 2017, which did things like create the two-way contract, which allowed young players and even not young think we've seen have really big benefits for teams and for young players. So this one added another contract, so teams now have three two-ways and not just two. I'm a big fan, I think that it will probably help with developing talent and not being forced to bury those guys in the G because you only have two opportunities to do so. The Trailblazers also just created their G League team. They were one of the last teams to not have one. So yeah, I think that like we've seen how the G League's been able to develop guys and help them compete and contribute on the higher level, like especially you talk about Jordan Poole who was stuck down there for a year and then came back and was completely different player. That's one thing in there that I think is important. I don't know if you have any comments about that one.

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No, I agree. I mean, I think any time you can get more players on the team, more roster spots is good, especially because there's been players in the G League that shouldn't be down there, but there's not enough spots for them in the league.

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Yeah, exactly. And you talk about like, there's been a big resurgence in discussion about the value of vets and what they mean to a team. So I think, yeah, enabling teams to have another contract where guys don't have to be on the team and they can go down and develop in the G, Another big rule change was, so the NBA has long had a soft salary cap, which allows you to go higher than the ceiling payroll, but you have to pay what's called a luxury tax. And there also has existed a first apron, which is a threshold that's like $6 million over that soft ceiling. And certain conditions make that into a hard ceiling. For example, if a team gets a player through sign and trade, that $6 million apron turns into a hard cap, which has been a thing. The new part, they just installed a second apron, another threshold above that, which is about $17 million over the cap, that triggers much more harsh restrictions and makes it a lot harder for teams to buy rosters and build up super teams and acquire expensive talent, but it shouldn't affect teams who home grow talent and end up having to sign those guys to big contracts. So for one, those teams who hit the second apron, one of the restrictions, they're completely barred from using their $5 million taxpayer mid-level exception. You know something that enabled The Warriors to sign D Vincenzo last year or the Bucks to get Joe angles or John Walts as Clippers It can be really important in building your roster Because role players tend to fall into these minimums and mid levels So it's definitely something that Teams will look to not fall under, yeah, there's also, if you hit the second apron, you're not allowed to compete in the buyout market for, you know, vets who get waived and then can be signed past the trade deadline. But that's also not really a well-defined thing. But still, they're not allowed to be involved in it. They also, those teams that hit the second apron cannot include any cash in trades whatsoever and they can't use a trade exception that is not from the current year. So like if they had one from last year, it would enable them to spend more money. They can't carry that over which they used to be able to. And then, yeah, the biggest implications in my opinion are if you hit the second apron you have no ability to trade your first round picks that are over six years out they are frozen and you can't do anything with them which is huge because we've seen you know like I know we've talked about all these trades that include like three four first round picks that are like eight years ten years out so that's a thing that teams won't be able to do if they spend that much money. Yeah, before we go on to the others, what do you think about that? I love all these changes. I think that they'll help a more competitive league with good parity. And yeah, I'm happy to see it.

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I think anything that helps the small market teams keep their stars and not lose them to the Lakers and the Knicks and the Celtics of the world. I mean, I think that's a good thing.

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Yeah, no, I completely agree. Another new thing they put in is called cap smoothing. So the way it used to work is, like for example, in 2016 when the TV contract ran up. They had to sign a new one with Disney and Turner and that led to a significant influx in revenue because it's based on just the value and that's assessed during these television contracts. So they saw how high it went up by 32% in one year, which gave teams a lot more room to spend. And that was a spike that allowed the Warriors the caps race they needed to sign KD after having the best year ever.

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People don't realize how much TV money runs sports. It's a TV program. It's not anything beyond that. It's just live television entertainment. It's in the same bracket as your favorite TV show. It's not right

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yeah, and so the the rules that they make have to Reflect these and and then the money that you're allowed has to reflect Like you said the the TV value and what it brings but the TV contract are the most important things for teams like that's what?

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You're selling as your team and your brand is to get a big TV contract.

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Yep.

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So, yeah, that spike that was not barred in the old CBA, like I said, allowed the Warriors to get KD and just created a real uneven distribution of wealth from teams that were willing to spend that. So under the new one, under the new agreement, they have what's called cap smoothing, which is basically, regardless of a new TV contract and any increase of value, the cap cannot go up by any more than 10% in any one year. So if, for example, it was like the 32% like in 2016, it would only go up 10 and they'd tack that on the backend. So it wouldn't be drastic changes, but players would still be able to get all their money and it just won�t come in the form of a short-term spike that alters the competitive balance. That�s another good thing. I�m all for any rule change that creates parity and helps balance the power between big markets and small markets.

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Yeah, it's definitely a necessary thing.

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So another big part was, this is the one that people are talking about the most. There's a new minimum games played for individual awards and all NBA. The older one was 58 games and the new one, they bumped it up to 65 games. So if you don't play 65, you're ineligible for things like MVP, Rookie of the Year and all NBA teams. for Jimmy Highroller on YouTube, I'm a big fan, made a video talking about this, and it displayed how over the past three seasons, 15 of the 45 All-NBA selections wouldn't have made the cut, which doesn't sound like all that much, that's fine, but in the 19 seasons before that, only 15 All-NBA selections wouldn't qualify. So the idea that these guys are playing way less and making these teams or getting these awards is newer and it's something that wasn't really a problem before the last few years.

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It's definitely an indictment on the load management error too. I mean, like, it's necessary now because you're seeing guys that are just not playing back-to-backs. Like, it's bad.

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I don't think it's great for the league to see that. Yeah, I agree and I think that funny like caveat caveat there is that a Lot of the players agree. A lot of the players don't want to sit out and this often falls on franchises like, you know, we talked recently about how the Thunder and the Spurs and even the Mavs this year, you know didn't play guys or whatnot because of nothing other than standings, which I think is not good. But so he posed an interesting question about how, like, is it worth trying to squeeze out a handful of more games from these superstars at the risk of giving out awards to guys with like significantly worse numbers and contributions? What do you think?

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I mean, I think there's obviously some nuance in that discussion. Like, if a player's at 64 games or something, but if it's like Joel Embiid played 38 games in the season and he's having an MVP campaign in those 38 games, I don't care if, like, someone played all 82 and is slightly worse. I've obviously given them the award.

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Yeah, that's fair. And like you mentioned, there is a little piece there that, so there's a caveat, like season ending injuries, I don't know how they define that or when it has to come in, but the threshold moves to 62 games, which I guess is fair. And then also, there's just a 20 minute minimum game, or threshold for all games played. So like, you know, you have to wonder if teams will play their guys for 20 minutes and a second and then pull them in games that are less important or whatnot and just get through the loophole like that. Like in the video he mentions AC Green who has like this ridiculous… Yeah, he was the Iron Man. Ridiculous 15-year streak where he played literally every single game, but some of them he checks in for like a minute.

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Yeah, that's the thing. But with 20 minutes, I think you can't really do that.

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You gotta play, 20 minutes is almost a half of basketball. And also, with guys caring so much about individual stats and them having big implications on awards and even like their contracts, I don't think the players are gonna be really excited to play a lot of 20 minute games where they can only score 13 points and, you know, it's I'm tough to define. They're moving into just the five most vote getters will be on the first team, six through ten will be on the second, and 11 through 15 will be on the third. So this was something that like caused Embiid and Jokic to constantly have to fight over the first team even though both of them in my opinion pretty clearly deserved first team All-NBA for the last handful of years. So yeah I like it a lot but there's also some interesting questions. How do you

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feel about it? I mean, yeah, I like it. Obviously, I think it's just the way the game is now. You can't really have positions when the game's gone positionless like that. And like you said, Embiid and Djokovic, they're canceling Calagari. You'd see it with like, you'll see it moving forward with like Luka and DeAaron and Steph even like those guys not moving forward because they switched it but you would have.

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Right, yeah. And even like you talk about like guys like Wemby that are really hard to define in one position like he's listed now as a forward on the Spurs but like he's 7'3". I don't know. So yeah, I agree with that. I think that a couple things to consider though are like what if like the five best players in the league are all one position should that be prevented or is that like justified that that's okay that's how it is? Because like-

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I think if that was the case, I don't think that would ever be the case, but if it was, I think that's such an anomalistic thing, like, sure, whatever.

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No, it's definitely an extreme case, but the trend exists for sure, even if it's not all five guys at the same position.

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If it's five wings, I can understand that. You could realistically run a lineup with five wings out there and be fine.

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Yeah, it'd be a lot harder with five guards or five bigs. But yeah, no, that's fair. But for example, when we go over these under 25 lists, or even the feeble list, and you talk about how dominated the guard and wing positions are, and how lackluster the bigs are, it seems to be that you're at a disadvantage in all-NBA if you're positioned like that. But also, the all-defensive teams switch to it too. So when you think about the advantage that Bigs have in all-defensive voting, it's phenomenal. Despite Marcus Smart winning two seasons ago, all-defensive voting is dominated by Bigs and has been for basically ever because they play such an elevated role. Like since 1990, there's only been two guards and two wings to win the award. It was Gary Payton in 1996 and Marcus Smart two years ago while they were guards. And then the wings were Kawhi Leonard who won it twice and Metal World Peace who won

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in 04.

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Yeah, and then I guess you could put Draymond in there, but he played a lot of small big, but yeah, those are all you know Clearly it's a thing that's dominated by big guys. So you do you think it's fair that like Despite them maybe having a disadvantage in terms of all NBA They have a clear advantage in all defensive or things like that I think the advantage is just the nature of the game right like big men are their Role on the court is largely defensive. So it makes sense. Mm-hmm Yeah, no, it's fair. Overall, though, like you said, I agree. I'm happy we're switching to a less strict position system that will allow guys to get in where they fit in and not have to be designated to a second team despite being a top three player in the league at any one point. And then the last thing that was just announced is that the play-in tournament which is and also a part of the CBA Will be played right here in Vegas for the semi-finals So I'm really excited about that and more NBA basketball in Vegas. That'll be fun Yeah, so I guess just to spitball finish in here about Vegas and more basketball there There's been plenty of rumors about expansion And what that will look like and it'll be right here. Do you like the chances of them coming here and if so, do you think the second will be in Seattle or elsewhere? And I don't know if you'd be able to answer this one, I definitely can't, but how would that affect conferences and divisions?

0:27:06
Well, I don't think it'll happen within the next five years. I think it's something that'll happen more toward the tail end of the decade. But yeah, I think if Vegas and Seattle, they've said for years now are locked in when they expand. So I think they would probably have to move like, I don't know, New Orleans to the east

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or something like that and then keep those two teams in the West. Yeah, because they'd have to. Yeah, no, it's interesting. They'd have to because there's no put in either of those teams. Should New Orleans really be in the West anyway right no it's fair I mean it'd be interesting to see because also like you know like what would there be other implications of going from 30 to 32 teams that we're not thinking of I'm not sure like how would it affect like we were talking about CBAs the playoffs

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are already over saturated so I hope they wouldn't add like another playoff of you'd be surprised to not get protected, because eight is not a lot. It's not a lot, but you can protect the core of your roster. I remember when the NHL did it for the Golden Knights. They gave you a good protection, but they didn't give you nearly enough, and they allowed the Knights to really build up a solid team. So, the NBA, you can make your expansion teams good by lowering the protections on players from other teams. And if your league wants the expansion team to be good

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and not be garbage, they can be good and not be garbage. Exactly, and also like, one of the big drivers for why so many people want expansion is like, there is just a plethora of really good NBA talent, maybe even starting NBA talent, that doesn't get the opportunity that fans would like to see. and But, yeah, I think that it's about time. I'm excited to see more NBA in Vegas. And yeah, I just think that the idea of the NBA bringing more cities and a bigger fan base is something that all fans would be really excited about. So to wrap it up here, that's about all the time we have. I appreciate you for being here with us. Thank you so much. That's a wrap for Gucci Rowe this week. Thanks for tuning in on The Rebel HD 2 with your hosts Kevin Kelly and Will Despard. You can find us on Instagram Rebel HD 2 with your hosts Kevin Kelly and Will Despard. You can find us on Instagram at 1kevkelly and willdespard. We'll see you next time on The Rebel HD 2.